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RoN Strategy for Beginners
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Topic Subject:Ideas for Enlightenment Age Warfare
Linus Koh
Member
posted 12-07-03 11:33 PM EDT (US)         
In my recent games for Multiplayer and Solo games, I had begun using tactics once deployed by generals of that time(enlightenment age, 1770's to 1860's). It had been quite sucessful on my part since it had been effective in both offensive and defensive. Just yesterday, my army managed to fight off multiple attacks because of various reasons.

1. My army was grouped together in tight line formations (stand ground) which could resist both infantry/calvary attacks.
2. With this large force backed up with cannons and supply waggons(french), enemy forces found it hard to break my lines.
3. My enemies had set his troops on Attack Move which saw them marching towards my armies disorganised manner. Their calvary was without support since it was much faster than infantry hence the same thing would happen the calvary would be downed my my heavy infantry before they were able to close in (Like what happened to Napoleon's Calvary in Waterloo). When his infantry arrived on the field, they were in range of my cannons and my musketeers.

What I realised was that players don't use units the way they were meant to be used. The way to counter such tactics is to use the cannons since my formations were so tight ( Only 5 cannons were used against me while I had 15). The calvary was used the wrong way since calvary during the time would normally attacked after their infantry had enaged the opposing infanrty to finish off the remaining weaken defenders. because of this, my army with a constant reinforcemtents of around 10 units per battle, fought off 2 different armies from 2 players before the lag clamied me as a victim. To conclude, players are using their units the wrong way they were meant to be used.

AuthorReplies:
kAbt
Member
posted 12-08-03 05:42 AM EDT (US)     1 / 19       
One tip on dtances.
I have all my buildings' (and thus units') stance set to defensive because it is the most managable stance. From time to time I change it for a brief period for things such as cavalry charges (set to offensive) or for light cavalry defending against horse archer raiders. Being on the defensive stance keeps units from straying far ahead of the group and being killed one by one.

The tactic described above is very effective (its what i do too) and can be countered somewhat by hitting them with numerically superior cannons and possibly a sacrificial cavalry attack on their cannon (your cavalry and their cannon both die). They would have to break formation to attack your cannon. An alternative to this may be moving arround their army and attacking an important econmical city behind them, forcing them to move to defend. This could even be a decoy attack.

Remember, your troops are either moving or attacking, most cannot do both. You want your infantry and cannons to be stopped and attacking during a battle NOT moving.

Just a few thoughts, thanks.

Linus Koh
Member
posted 12-08-03 06:03 AM EDT (US)     2 / 19       
I know of that counter hence I always have calvary to charge those little babies. Speaking about being out flanked, I always have a division of 30 men (something like Napoleon's Imperial guards) hidden from view. The tactic which i had mentioned could resist up to 3 attacks before reinforcements would be needed. To counter a flanking attack on my men I would direct the reinforcements to the area where the fighting is the hottest.

P.S To cause the opponent to avoid invading me, I would take the attack to them near one of their cities (French rule with their suppiles)

KRool
Member
posted 12-08-03 09:41 AM EDT (US)     3 / 19       
It's amazing to see how close Rise of Nations get's to real warfare when it comes to the tactical stuff. The damage bonus from sides and all that make some "real" strategies really effective. (*Happy he quitted AoM for RoN, has a blast with Incas* )

K.Rool,
Master of unnecessary knowledge...
kAbt
Member
posted 12-08-03 10:37 AM EDT (US)     4 / 19       
My idea of charging against the cannons with a group of cavalry and having them both die together hasn't worked all the time in testing. And a very tightly packed army is best not rushed into.

The most effective technique I've found for the tightly positioned defeneders is an extremely tight formation. What works best is to pile all your units on top of each other. Cannons inside the infantry lines, supporting wagons, generals, commandos etc also inside and infantry spaced closer than the normal spacing. Very tightly packed. Cavalry have no way of getting in. Attacking cannons will have to come within range of the defending cannons to do anything. And with healing supply wagons... a very difficult nut to crack.

War
Member
posted 12-08-03 12:29 PM EDT (US)     5 / 19       
RoN does not act anything like historic enlightenment battles. Not even close.

When someone has all his army it tight formation it's best to go elsewhere, if eh is not careful when he moves it you can slaughter it with cavalry as the infatry move off and the cannons limber up, throw a couple of spies in for good measure and you can make a real mess. If his big mass is pounding on a city, let it. Your city doesn't die, just build up and wait, when he comes to claim his prize then hit him.

If you do get in to a firefight with him you have your units entrenched (don't you?) and garrisoned, plus it's quicker for you to build up reinforcments.

A big battle like that is also an excellent time to send those raiders in, he might not notice his economy being ripped from under him.

Linus Koh
Member
posted 12-08-03 08:36 PM EDT (US)     6 / 19       
About being outflanked by another army, I have suggested an army of around 30 to be used in such dire straits. This tactic of mine is not to move around. If i wanted to claim the city I would send in around 5 infantry (3 Light, 2 Heavy) and if I encounter a huge army of the enemy, I would try to bait them towards mine. About being raided, forts+towers are useful to just butcher those guys. Being bribed, always have a hanful of explorers around your army (2 to 3). If his entrecnhed army is behind a city, all I have to do is to concentrate my fire on them 20 cannons with an army of 40 infantry could reduce those defences.

X-Enemy Entrenched Positions
A-My Cannons
T-My troops (stand ground)
C-Enemy City
CA-My calavry

XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
......C.......

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.....CA
TTTTTTTTTTTTTTT......CA
......................CA
.......................CA

[This message has been edited by Linus Koh (edited 12-08-2003 @ 08:38 PM).]

Astro Tarquin
Member
posted 12-08-03 08:48 PM EDT (US)     7 / 19       
Well, this one really is more generic than anything else, it's a strategy used by Scipio Africanus, not a tactic, as you are talking about. It's called attcaking the enemy while his army is a ttacking your's. Often times a player will have very small reserves in his base(or none at all, expecting you to be tied up in your own base) and if you attack, and he has minimal fortifications(even if he has plenty, just include cannons) then you can at a minimum, force him to pull his troops back. If he isn't paying attention then you can overrun his whole base. Another good strategy is to take a Periclean(or Fabian) policy, and only attack and feint, as he is attacking your base. If you are well enough fortified then you can do this and slowly wear him down, and sometimes they will lose the whole force because they think all you're doing is minimal damage, and if you play as Russians(as I do) and hit their supply wagons then they will lose troops on the march home, possibly even whatever they had left.

Remember the Romans, 'nuff said
Those who are successful are those who learn to think
War
Member
posted 12-09-03 04:49 AM EDT (US)     8 / 19       

Quote:

all I have to do is to concentrate my fire on them 20 cannons with an army of 40 infantry could reduce those defences.

I think you are probably right. Sorry, my mistake, I thought we were talking about a regular game of RoN. What was the other guy doing while you were massing that little force before attacking? What is his 20 cannons and 40 infantry doing? Sitting on your capital?

Linus Koh
Member
posted 12-09-03 06:48 AM EDT (US)     9 / 19       
This Strategy is to have his army attacking yours by placing your Army close to one of his economic cities. War you seem to have forgotten to read of a post which I had suggested an army of around 30 to prevent enemy troops from even getting closer to my capital.This is much easier since the army which I'm using to invade needs little mnanagement.

"What is his 20 cannons and 40 infantry doing? Sitting on your capital?"

You seem to forget supply waggons.

War
Member
posted 12-09-03 02:39 PM EDT (US)     10 / 19       
You have 20 Cannons, 40 Infantry and a spare 30 for defense?

LOL

Sounds like a good plan

Raven36
Member
posted 12-09-03 05:24 PM EDT (US)     11 / 19       
Linus this is just a game not in-depth strategic warfare, sometimes real life warfare doesnt apply here, IE you should attack earlier with ALL your troops not 30 just for defense (waste)

- - - - _Au_RaveN - - - -
Astro Tarquin
Member
posted 12-09-03 08:16 PM EDT (US)     12 / 19       
Ok, Raven, this may not be real life, and there may be less at stake, but if you attack with all of your troops, and you're playiong a good player, then they will know that this is the time to attack your base, because you won't have any troops. Having those thirty to spare, will surprise them and they will panic and retreat and then you can sandwich his troops in between your two bodies of troops, obliterate THEM and THEN and only THEN use ALL of your troops to then overrun and capture at least one city(if you do it right you can wipe them off the map with it).

Remember the Romans, 'nuff said
Those who are successful are those who learn to think
War
Member
posted 12-09-03 08:47 PM EDT (US)     13 / 19       
Split your army like that and you die. I fyou are playing a good player then he will have a similar force, so when you attack your 20 cannons and 40 units will be met with 20 cannons and 70 units on the other side, while half your army takes a sight seeing holiday in your capital. Or he could take his 20 cannons and 70 units and crush your 30 defending your capital then return to crush you main force.

Divide and conquer. Standard Real-Life military tactics that do apply.

er, that means Raven is right

[This message has been edited by War (edited 12-09-2003 @ 08:50 PM).]

Raven36
Member
posted 12-09-03 08:58 PM EDT (US)     14 / 19       
Your assuming too much (assuming your playing a "good" player they wont "paniac" when they run into 30 troops lol, after all the player is good because he attacked behind your base ), 30 defending troops is a waste, a good player will almost never move his army very far away from the attacking army if he does 30 troops for defense is too much dare I say, if you get attacked just make troops to defend, I'm sure most "Good" players agree you dont have to have a defense army towers and attrition will do much better and are MUCH cheaper, end of story

- - - - _Au_RaveN - - - -

[This message has been edited by Raven36 (edited 12-09-2003 @ 09:00 PM).]

danywar
Member
posted 12-09-03 10:12 PM EDT (US)     15 / 19       

Quote:

all I have to do is to concentrate my fire on them 20 cannons with an army of 40 infantry could reduce those defences.

dont you get a penalty for all units fiering at a single unit?

MY favourite tactic is to
1 engage with infantry
2 attack with cannons
3 flank attack with cavalry & a frontal attack with cavalry decoys)

4 LC rear attack

5 to ?? improvise


Am I the only one who likes
my pet, the great pithouphis catenifer?
Linus Koh
Member
posted 12-09-03 10:17 PM EDT (US)     16 / 19       
Btw, the main point of my original post is not about mny invasion theories. Its about people not using their units properly ( Having their armies on attack move= Army being butchered).

Speaking about concentrating fire, What I was suggesting is that you attack ground on those entrenched positions with reinforcements going to postions that are prone to flankings.

Linus

[This message has been edited by Linus Koh (edited 12-09-2003 @ 10:22 PM).]

War
Member
posted 12-09-03 10:43 PM EDT (US)     17 / 19       
Actually Linus I noticed that point of yours and I totally agree. It breaks my heart to see cavalry lumped in with an army. They send it in and the cavalry rush forward to the enemy lines, which sadly, are all pike

Operate cavalry in squadrons on the flanks.

[This message has been edited by War (edited 12-10-2003 @ 08:36 AM).]

KRool
Member
posted 12-10-03 03:32 AM EDT (US)     18 / 19       
LOL - I tried out this:

I used Cav-decoys for flanking the enemy about 4 seconds after the 2 main lines clashed. The interesting thing (that's where I got the idea from) is that I noticed some people tend to specifically have a seperate group in the battle stay a bit back and attack in second line - to use them as defenders if flanked. If you put then in the right formation with the correct angle, they aren't even flanked themselves, and it's not that easy to spot in a big battle for the other guy.

Just that...mine were decoys - worked perfectly, my real Cav flanked the support from the other side, then proceeded to beat the crap out of his army
Next I'd need Elephants, then I could test some Hannibal-tactics!


K.Rool,
Master of unnecessary knowledge...
Astro Tarquin
Member
posted 12-10-03 08:37 PM EDT (US)     19 / 19       
Attack the enemy where he isn't... is this not what Scipio did in order to beat Hannibal? All I have to say is that when I do it against a tough level AI opponent, it works every time. I usually at least am able to completely disrupt his econ, while needlessly butting his head against my fortifications, and taking attrition damage. I mean, if Hannibal hyad left a minor rear guard in Spain and Africa, then he would not have been forced to pull out so inadvantageously, and would've thinned out Scipio's number's. Also, I'm not a major proponent of a large defense force when on the offensive, I'm just saying that it could work, as you said war divide and conquer... if you have them surrounded then they aren't going to win... at least not nearly as easily.

Remember the Romans, 'nuff said
Those who are successful are those who learn to think
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