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Rise of Nations Heaven » Forums » Big Huge Fandom » XPack/Superpack: New Editors
Topic Subject:XPack/Superpack: New Editors
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posted 01-09-10 11:08 PM EDT (US)         
I guess I'll just have to teach myself, but I, for one, hate the Script Editor. Some games, like Age of Empires 3, have less customizable but easier-to-make scripts. They just have normal trigger-and-condition lists, and the names make sense. No stupid binary. I believe they should rewrite the Script Editor to make a Trigger Editor within the Scenario Editor, and some other Editors for the modders.

This would allow you to create new nations. Not replacement nations, but new ones: of course, there could be a limit on how many nations you can have ready to play at any given time (thus, if you make a lot of nations you have to "store" some of them for if you ever want to play as/against them).
Also, in the Editor (or as a separate one) you could make new Technologies, and new Ages.

This would allow you to design new Units and Buildings. You would be able to write out the stats and, using a variety of given "body parts" and "uniforms" design what they look like. For example, you could set it to be a Human, in which case you would have various uniforms, or a Vehicle, in which case you would have body parts. Same deal with Buildings.

This would allow you to create new Basic and Rare Resources, "drawing" what the patches would look like. (or combining them with a new Building) Maybe there could also be a Terrain Editor to make new types of terrains.

This would allow you to make new CTWs.

I believe this would be a good idea for Big Huge Games, as I'm sure this XPack would fly off the shelves, and it would make modding/scenario creation much easier.
posted 08-31-10 00:57 AM EDT (US)     1 / 9       
Wow its been a while since someone has gone onto this forum section. Anyway, I think that is EXACTLY what is needed for RON. Its the best way to stop people spamming the threads. Have you played Spore? Its not very similar to Rise of nations because only at one stage do you create units like you do in RON and it isn't very good but there is a building creator and a vehicle creator where you can get different parts and put them on and you can resize rotate and change the object in other ways. And then there is a whole section of textures and you can choose if you want to get an automatic paint job for the whole thing or if you want to colour each bit yourself. However it would probably ruin the enjoyment that I believe some people get when they see their creation in their game after lots of work and it means the modders (all of them I think are skilled) who spend all the extra effort won't get any extra credit than the normal player. But it would overall be a great addition to RON.
PS. Does anyone know if BHG is going back to Rise of Nations or are they ditching it? In my opinion RON is the best RTS game of the decade, possibly the best ever!
posted 08-31-10 06:12 AM EDT (US)     2 / 9       
A bonus card editor and a unique general/patriot editor would be also great.

About creating new Basic resources, I don't think it's a good idea, since thus every scenario designer or modder could create its own. This means that everytime you download a scenario you'll have to learn where you can find that resource, what it does, etc. Also I think having more than 6 basic resources in the Information Age would unbalance the game. But having a Rare Resource editor is definitely a good idea.

About having a nation editor, this is definitely a great idea. But I'm now sure how the AI would handle nations with strange powers. If the program would let you create your own power for that nation, there are infinite ways you can make your nation truly unique, but the AI can't be that smart, unfortunately. Anyway, a nation editor which would let you only create a new nation, add a name to it, some leaders, cities and unique units would be great.

I also think creating your own age is a great idea, I would really enjoy making a Prehistoric age. But again, I'm not sure how the AI will play then, so I guess this would be fine only for multiplayer games.

The unit-building editor would be great if it would let you create new units and buildings, not replacing the existing ones.

And the CTW editor is something they really should have included already in RoN. At least if they had included a simple tool to let you easily create a map compatible to RoN, and to change territory names and nation names it would have been great.

About the scenario editor, I personally like scripting but I'm guessing there are many people who detest it and they don't make scenarios for RoN therefore. I always thought that the RoN scenario design isn't too active because RoN is a rather old game. But I just looked on the Age of Kings scenario editor forums, and I saw 12 threads last updated yesterday...Moreover, the last thread from the first page was last updated on 26th August. This means there are still a lot of people who design scenarios for Age of Kings, although AoK is much older than RoN.

I also think RoN is probably the best, or one of the best RTS game ever. That's why I can't understand why people still play games like Age of Mythology, which has nothing better than RoN except some nice sounds, but they don't play RoN. I just looked at the SP Scenarios from AOMH and I saw there are 14 scenarios(if I counted well) made only in August, while here on RONH there are no scenarios made in August available yet(the admins haven't put my scenario on the site yet). It seems that scripting scares a lot of people away from making scenarios, although this is not really difficult. Sadly, people seem to prefer to have a simple-to-use trigger editor, than a more complicated but also more flexible script editor.

[This message has been edited by LordBJ (edited 08-31-2010 @ 06:18 AM).]

posted 09-01-10 00:35 AM EDT (US)     3 / 9       
People make scenarios for Age of Kings because you don't need to write a script. Instead you create triggers by selecting the conditions and effects and you only have to select what you want, you don't need to do any writing in the complicated script language. Although this is really simple and good for people who can't stand scripts, I'm sure it's probably a hassle for people who know how to script though because I don't think you can do as much with the triggers they have. The reason its popular is that the majority players don't have the ability to script but I do prefer Ron's editor because the layout is far simpler (apart from the script).

Its quite depressing that such a small amount of people go on this site. There are only one or two staff members still around yet i haven't heard anything from ODA since April but then theres that mythic commodore person who seems to be staff but for another game probably. )-:
I agree that people should like RON more than they like AOM because those games aren't very intense. I have Age of Empires 3 and there is barely any fighting and when you aren't fightin it gets boring quite easily unlike RON where breaks in the fighting are alright with me!
posted 09-07-10 06:21 AM EDT (US)     4 / 9       
Ok, I understand why people don't make scenarios for RoN, but I still don't know why there are so few people who download fan-made scenarios(the newest 2 scenarios available on RoNH have an average of 2-3 downloads/day). This is strange because RoN scripting allows people to create more creative and more interesting scenarios than AoM or AoE trigger editors do.

Also it's hard to guess why so few people visit this forum, since I've seen older games which much more active forums. I think there are less than 10 people who are still fairly active here. It seems this game got old too quickly, or maybe it isn't attractive enough to newer players.
posted 09-08-10 00:18 AM EDT (US)     5 / 9       
I was looking at the Guiness World Gaming records and there was no mention of RON in the RTS section! ):
What do people have against RON? And its far more organized than Age of Empires 2 where nations build stuff all over the place and its nearly impossible to win a game because you pretty much have to kill all their units and buildings.
posted 09-08-10 04:23 PM EDT (US)     6 / 9       
Well some of my friends, for example, do not even want to try RoN because they simply think RoN is just a copy of Age of Empires. Perhaps that's the reason why this game wasn't as succesful as it probably should have been. I also looked on some RTS-themed websites, and often found things like "RoN is very similar to Age of Empires". Well, I agree RoN has many things in common with AoE, but there're also some important differences that make RoN a richer game, in my opinion. For example, the territory idea, though simple, makes RoN a unique game in its genre. I don't think this game lacks originality, though one may still sometimes get that feeling of "been there, done that".

I haven't played AoE 2 too much, but I agree RoN is much more organized and more intense than other high-rated RTS-s like Age of Mythology, for example. Also RoN is more challenging, much more complex and less repetitive than AoM, but still AoM is more appreciated.

I still can't guess why RoN has become almost dead, however Basically, every fan of RTS games or strategy games in general could do a search for top-rated RTS-s on Gamespot and find RoN(Rise of Nations has a rating of 9,3, this helped me decide to get this game). The game is quite cheap nowadays so every RTS fan could at least give it a try.

[This message has been edited by LordBJ (edited 09-08-2010 @ 04:24 PM).]

posted 09-09-10 00:30 AM EDT (US)     7 / 9       
I must admit AOM is a very good game but there is not as much stuff to do as the campaign is always the same. AOM is good because of the graphics and the titans and god powers are awesome and the fights are pretty fun but still it is scoped so you don't control as much and its too easy to reach the max pop limit.

The key reason I play RON is that it pretty much never gets boring. It took me a few years to lose interest in the normal game but when that happened I discovered the art of modding. The best mods I know probably got a bit old after half a year but that is only two mods (ODA's Napoleon Mod and Nikox's age of tanks mod, both 10 out of 10). Then there are many other brilliant ones I probably haven't even heard of and there are many small mods that I would enjoy for a few weeks. And after a while of not playing a mod I can go back to it and so on. And if I get to the point that I'm bored of all the mods...
I can make my own ones!! (believe me, it is quite simple to make mods)
posted 09-09-10 07:20 AM EDT (US)     8 / 9       
Well I found this game less than a year ago, so I haven't yet got bored of the regular game(I think there're still some nations which I never tested). However, I was also thinking about starting to mod this game, but unfortunately I don't think I have enough artistic skills. And I have no experience at all with 3d drawing. Modding .xml files seems to be pretty easy and intuitive, but I think a mod without new units/building simply can't be that satisfying. And there's also too much trial-and-error until you understand what you're doing wrong(never experienced this myself, but I've seen a lot of people who had to deal with the annoying exception error).

When I want to add something different to the game, I try to do this through scripting, in a scenario. Simple scripting(like adding some popups and objectives) is a piece of cake. Scripting in general is much easier to do than people often believe. And it also has the advantage of being less confusing than modding(at least, that's my opinion). I'm saying this because when one has scripted something that doesn't work, he usually can find out what he's doing wrong. That's not true for modding, unfortunately.
posted 09-10-10 02:24 AM EDT (US)     9 / 9       
I've started making a mod and I don't have 3DS Max but you don't need unless you are making something really out there like a spaceship or something. Changing textures for units is actually very simple. If you have seen Edilberto's mods the units aren't actually that detailed, theres no shading or anything. I just get an existing unit texture and make it look cool. And I think modding is much easier because you barely ever have to do something from scratch; you're always editing or copying/pasting and then editing but scripts have to be created from scratch. And I think modding gets a lot more satisfaction because your normal gameplay is changed and new concepts added etc.

[This message has been edited by super7700 (edited 09-10-2010 @ 02:26 AM).]

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