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Game Modifications
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Topic Subject: Modeling Help Thread
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posted 06-06-10 02:24 PM EDT (US)   
Ok so I am going to start this thread so that any of us that are modelling can post our problems and questions here.

This is in the hope that any of our veteran modelers like ODA can drop by and answer some questions as I am beginner at Max too.

[This message has been edited by uthum876 (edited 06-07-2010 @ 03:13 AM).]

posted 06-06-10 02:31 PM EDT (US)     1 / 212  
Ok I'll start things off,

I was messing around the other day trying to practice max and I created my first model, a Famas assault rifle that I want to attach to infantry models like the AK-47 and the M16....I want to hopefully use this for my WW3 mod.

Voila here it is:

But the problem is, its just a collection of shapes thus far, I have no idea on how to rig it and make it ready for export into RON. Do I need to first link all the shapes together to make it one big object? I know I have to use the physique modifier to create nodes so that the infantry models can hold it and I also have to go about creating an ammo node where a muzzle flash can occur....I guess this is where I am stuck because I don't know what the procedure is......I've been looking this up on the internet but so far I haven't found anything.

Its scaled correctly, at least I think looks scaled when you compare it to the rifleman mesh that was released by BHG:

ODA, or any modelers out there....any idea on how I should proceed???

[This message has been edited by uthum876 (edited 06-06-2010 @ 06:28 PM).]

posted 06-06-10 03:35 PM EDT (US)     2 / 212  
I cant say I know that much about rigging myself but if you want the animation to work properly you need to use the exact nodes that BHG provided with their original model (that you got from their modding package) else the gun wont fire or it will not move in the way you want. So try to match up the nodes where the end of the gun was with your and lock it into the same point etc.

If you dont then you'd have to create your own animation sequence which would be a lot more work.

The gun color may also be an issue as well, I'm not entirely sure how you'd fix that the way you did it as a separate model. It will either just show up all black or white. If its black then given the level of zone it may look ok still.
posted 06-06-10 06:26 PM EDT (US)     3 / 212  
Good to see that your still around ODA...

OK I will take your tips into consideration..but 3 questions though.

Number 1, must I lock all the shapes together first? Can I just group them into one object and how can I "lock" BHG's nodes onto the model? I know in the manuel it says all objects must be unfrozen.

Number 2, do you think this model needs to be smoothed, before I export?

Number 3, am i forgetting to do anything else?
posted 06-07-10 01:41 AM EDT (US)     4 / 212  
posted 06-07-10 03:11 AM EDT (US)     5 / 212  

ODA when you made all your models, did you build your meshes around the meshes released by BHG?
posted 06-07-10 07:48 AM EDT (US)     6 / 212  
I would like to thank uthum876 for starting this thread, it is a great idea and I hope to learn a lot from it as time goes by, I just got 3ds max 5 working on my new PC and want to get started on my Cold War mod and help out the World War II mod.

I'm wondering if any of you guys could give an idea on what xml files need to be edited and what needs to be done in them to get the new models to work? I have played around with the unit_rules, rule, help and the graphic xml to a degree, but I realise that I still lack a lot of knowledge in dealing with them. *I just ask this question within this thread as it relates to modelling.*

I intend to get a another thread going for a guide on xml editing for many of the files. I find there are many people on the forum asking questions or starting threads repeating what has already been asked, when in fact we could have one place where they can source the info on xml info.
posted 06-07-10 10:26 AM EDT (US)     7 / 212  
To have a new model working you need working nodes first.
So if you are working on a tank export your model as a .3ds file, opento the churchill.max what you found with the exporter in meshes folder than delete the body leaving all nodes. Import your model and choose merge with current image. Now move the nodes to match with your model body save it and export as .bh3 file.
In unit_graphics.xml use the CHURCHILLDES configuration substituting the model and texture files with your new ones.
Probably you'll need to set the right scale too, but it's something what's better do later when you've seen how your model looks like when it's in game.
If you're working on a plane you can use the smoke nodes for the ammo placing them on wings and the gun node for the propeller placing it in the front edge.
posted 06-07-10 10:54 AM EDT (US)     8 / 212  
When exporting models do you need to physique them first?

Because last time I didn't physique the model and every time I tried to use it I got a "no face vertex something" error.

However this may been that obtained 3dsmax 5 in a "different"
as opposed to buying it.
posted 06-07-10 11:08 AM EDT (US)     9 / 212  
Yea you have to physique them, it says so in the manual. If you look at the BHG meshes they all have the physique modifier attached to them.

I get what your saying Nikox, but I don't know how to "lock" the nodes onto the model as ODA is saying....I think it has something to do with the physique modifier. I only really need 2 nodes on this model, should I just delete the rest? And Nikox, have you been able to successfully export anything into the game?

Gus, no problem.......I will help you out on your xml thread.
posted 06-07-10 04:01 PM EDT (US)     10 / 212  
ODA when you made all your models, did you build your meshes around the meshes released by BHG?
I just reshaped the model they they provided. That way I didnt need to mess around with nodes rigging and animation etc.

With the Tanks they did need to be rigged but we tried to keep the same nodes do we didnt have to rebuild any animation sequences.
posted 06-07-10 04:40 PM EDT (US)     11 / 212  

I got it into the game, and the animations are working correctly..................I didn't think it would work, but I guess it did.

But as you can see, the gun's position is a "little" off......but i guess the positioning can be fixed? I don't think it will be hard to do.

OK ODA, and hey is there anyway I can borrow your LecLerc 3ds files? I want to construct some modern tanks.....I can base them off of your model.

[This message has been edited by uthum876 (edited 06-07-2010 @ 06:02 PM).]

posted 06-07-10 05:58 PM EDT (US)     12 / 212  
Also, if you still have the files, it would be very helpful if you could upload your 'Rise of Panzers' .max files.
posted 06-08-10 01:31 AM EDT (US)     13 / 212  
Ok got it to work guys, I am going to try and skin this puppy now.

posted 06-08-10 02:16 AM EDT (US)     14 / 212  
It looks great and its working perfectly now, all I did was a process of trail and error where I kept on adjusting the position of the gun around the biped skeleton until it showed up where it was supposed to. Its weird almost, I ended up positioning it in between the legs of the biped skeleton and physique'ing it and then in the game it shows up in the arms of assault infantry unit instead of being in between his legs where I positioned it in the model.

But anyways, now that I am getting more comfortable with Max...I am going to attempt these models:

-Sa-80 assault Rifle
-G36 Assault Rifle
-MP5 Sub-machine Gun
-QZB-95 Assault Rifle
-Ak-74U & AK-74 w/GL attachment
-A hand-held GL, like an M32
-PKM Machine Gun
-RPD Machine Gun
-SAW Machine Gun
-MAG Machine Gun

The Famas only took a few minuted to make, so these models I am hoping won't be that difficult.....again I hope to use all of them in the WW3 mod.

@ODA, can you also release your max files for your Super Etendard? It can come in handy for us noobs trying to make aircraft.
posted 06-10-10 03:08 AM EDT (US)     15 / 212  
posted 06-10-10 10:24 AM EDT (US)     16 / 212  

Glad to see you still come on here, I loved your skins for your Napoleon Mod, quick question:

I am pretty good at getting anything I want done through scripting/modding .xml files, etc but one thing I have no skill at is art, have you ever considered taking one of the machine gun .tga files and turning it into a gatling gun? I would love to add the gatling gun in the Enlightement Age and then have it upgrade to the initial machine gun in Industrial, just didn't seem right to just go right from muskets to machine guns in one age, I could mod one of the unused CTW units but I need the .tga file and like I say I can't draw to save my life, but you're skins were incredible, any interest? Let me know.

posted 06-10-10 12:42 PM EDT (US)     17 / 212  
nope havent tried that. but u maybe able to mod the skins of the crew to make them look more like the period you're trying to do. in some cases, the crew can be changed. so instead of switching the gun you can switch the crew like canons can be. Which I think you do by changing the file reference in the xml from one crew to another kind.

[This message has been edited by One_Dead_Angel (edited 06-10-2010 @ 04:16 PM).]

posted 06-12-10 06:51 PM EDT (US)     18 / 212  
SU-25 Frog-Foot, my latest attempt at modelling.....its proving hard to physique cuz it needs ammo nodes on the wings for missiles..........can't copy and paste the churchhill's node's for some I'm stuck.

[This message has been edited by uthum876 (edited 06-12-2010 @ 08:02 PM).]

posted 06-13-10 08:57 AM EDT (US)     19 / 212  
Umthum where did you get 3ds max 5 from?
posted 06-13-10 01:11 PM EDT (US)     20 / 212  
I got it from one of my professors, he used to be a sales guy for autodesk...the company that makes MAX.

[This message has been edited by uthum876 (edited 06-13-2010 @ 09:37 PM).]

posted 06-13-10 02:39 PM EDT (US)     21 / 212  
SU-25 in action......

posted 06-13-10 10:27 PM EDT (US)     22 / 212  
Good Work uthum876! Awesome stuff. How hard was it to get the thing integrated(animation, nodes etc.)?

I'm just getting the hang of 3ds max 5 and will probably start with an M113 APC(very basic - but good starting point) for my Cold War mod. I'm just doing a few tutorials at the moment.

I am going to make quite a few models if I can, but as ODA pointed out it may be hard with all the animation and xml integration. At this stage I will be trying to get some aircraft done such as the F-4 Phantom, F-15, TSR.2 and so on. Tanks are easy to model, but with turrets and guns there is the issue of animation and skeletons which will take sometime to learn.
posted 06-14-10 12:17 PM EDT (US)     23 / 212  
Do you think you will do modelling request Uthum, and export other peoples models?

[This message has been edited by AreYouDumb (edited 06-14-2010 @ 12:18 PM).]

posted 06-14-10 12:31 PM EDT (US)     24 / 212  
I will try to do requests (I have a lot on my plate right now due to my own projects), but most definitely I can convert people's models for them, it only takes a couple seconds.

Thanks Gus! Making the model was pretty easy, it was just integrating it which proved to be difficult.....I can help you out if you need help...just post your question here.

I personally think, making the model is the easiest step in making a whole new unit, texturing is what is difficult and time consuming.

[This message has been edited by uthum876 (edited 06-14-2010 @ 12:53 PM).]

posted 06-14-10 01:05 PM EDT (US)     25 / 212  
Dont worry, I gave it another hack at fixing my "edition" of 3ds max and got it to work. Thanks anyway.
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